Ask Us Anything Friday

I feel like this is my fault, even though my husband says it's not, and that he was just being selfish and stupid, but I don't even know what that means! It has to be my fault! Why would he leave unless I was doing something wrong? And how will I ever keep him from leaving again if I don't know why he left in the first place?
Jesse -- I've said things about this in some of my other answers, but sometimes we feel as though we're going through a crisis in our lives and we struggle to grab onto something to give us hope.  For some men an affair is a way to validate that "we've still got it".  That sounds shallow, and it is, but it really is a result of something deeper.  Many men see the admission that we struggle with identity or value as weakness.  They see it as something to conquer internally and don't let others in to help build them up or if they do often it is in the wrong way with the wrong person.

Your last question touches on an important topic -  ongoing honesty and transparency.  It is very important, even though it may be difficult to hear, to understand the frustrations or struggles that your husband had and why he didn't voice them well enough before.  You can never simply know another person's heart, but you can come to know it if you cultivate that intimacy and honesty.  One thing many men struggle with is the belief that bringing a marital frustration to their wife will always end the same way, with them on the couch.  Wives need to be attentive to this and be receptive to a husband's frustrations.  If they reinforce the idea that their frustrations will always end in an argument or disagreement then they'll just tuck those issues away and that could help lead to a future blow out.

How long had it gone on for?
Lyryn -- Started March 27th (This is how my freakin' brain works... I remember this CRAP!) and ended on July 21st.  Then began back up again around the beginning of October and ended November 14th.
 
Will you ever tell your children your story?
Lyryn -- YES!  I want to write a book one day so if that happens I'm sure it would be hard to keep that from them, but even if I didn't get published we would still tell them.  Of course, we will wait until they are old enough to understand what it all means, but I do not believe in trying to keep it a secret from them.  I want them to understand how much their parents fought for one another and their marriage even in the worst of times and how much we love and appreciate one another now more because of it.

I want us to be an example of unconditional love in a marriage for them, and show them that a covenant marriage isn't something you just give up on because you are bored or want to trade up for something different.    I want them to see that their father fought hard to break generational curses so that they might never fall into it themselves.  There are many reasons we want to be open and honest about it.  I'm sure I could write a book on this alone.

Was Jesse mad at how many people you confided in? Or that you went to his own family and told them? 
Jesse -- Surprisingly enough I wasn't.  I could understand why some people would get upset, it's a betrayal of sorts.  I have always lived my life as an open book, so I knew these people would all be made aware of it at some point.  I didn't feel like I needed to be the first one to tell them.  I did have communication with all of these people after things calmed down a bit and acknowledged my failures. 

I was wondering if there was a reason why your father-in-law didn't say anything to you when you went there? Was he the one who had an affair too? How long ago?  Did your father-in-law ever explain why he acted that way? Do you think he already knew? 
Lyryn -- I will be writing a post on this next week.  But to quickly fill you in since I got SO many questions and emails about this, yes there was a reason he didn't say anything.  He did have several affairs while Jesse was growing up and at the time he was still living in that sin as well, so he didn't feel like he had the right to be mad at Jesse for something he was also struggling with.  I think he also blamed himself and felt completely terrible because he had seen Jesse and Lauren together in Jesse's car and didn't say anything.  Like I said, there is so much more to this story and I will be touching on it next week. 

I am confused though, why did all of this only fall apart after Lauren broke down to her husband about the affair? I am in no way trying to make this sound bad I am just curious if you had started to realize Lauren was not doing anything for you prior to her breaking down to her husband? Or did you just realize she wasn't the one for you only after she did?
Jesse --  I had always held out very little hope that anything could have ever worked between Lauren and I.  I tried to convince myself that it would work, but knew that it would have been nearly impossible to make work.  When she told her husband it became an impossibility.  I knew that neither her family, nor mine would ever accept the relationship now that it was known to be born of infidelity.  Although I had an affair with one woman the struggle was more about Lyryn or not Lyryn.  Shortly after the affair was revealed I decided that I was going to give my family a shot at being one unit. I just couldn't fathom the idea of not seeing my child as often as I wanted and this was initially a big motivation for pursuing reconciliation.

What do you think would've happened if Lauren hadn't told her husband?
Lyryn -- Honestly, I don't think it would have gone on much longer. That's just my thought of course and I'm just speculating, but because there had been so many lies and so many things covered up it was getting to difficult to keep track anymore.  They were both becoming sloppy and Jesse had just about had it with me so my marriage was about to end.  I honestly believe that Lauren wouldn't be able to handle that; breaking up not just her marriage and my marriage, but splitting up a family.  I might still be very hurt by her and have a hard time forgiving her but I do believe that her heart is good.  It takes a lot for me to say that, it really does, but I don't think she ever wanted to hurt anyone, even more so to rip apart a family.  Again... just my opinion I have no idea where her heart was or is. 
Jesse --  I agree with Lyryn's thoughts, but think it doesn't help anyone or anything to speculate.

Do you still think about Lauren?   
Jesse -- At this point there are moments, few and far between, where she still does cross my mind.  However, it's not really specific thoughts or events.  It's more of a quickly passing feeling and doesn't affect my thought patterns, mood or motivations with my wife.  After the affair ended a thought would cross my mind every couple of minutes all day long.  The frequency of the thoughts dissipated very slowly and then returned once she and I began talking again.  However, once things ended the second time so did most of the struggle controlling my thought life.

Jesse - what outcome/reaction did you envision or expect when you told Lyryn the truth?
Jesse -- I expected for things to unfold about like they did.  I knew Lyryn would be outraged.  As I said, I kind of wanted her to be.  I thought it would make it easier to allow me to walk away, but I still couldn't.  However, I wasn't expecting the longer lasting or frequency of her angry outbursts.

Do you ever miss Lauren? Looking back do you think *something* was really there?
Jesse --  No and no.  The foundation of the relationship was built on lies and mistrust.  Additionally, no relationship can be built upon the destruction of another and be truly genuine.  How can any person trust a person they had an affair with?  Especially when they were both previously married?  If they were willing to have an affair and leave their partner once, why wouldn't they being willing to do it again? During the affair I really believed that I was in love, but I wasn't.  It was lust and infatuation.  Look up 1 Corinthians 13...  If it doesn't line up, then it isn't.

If you could take it all back would you? Or do you consider this one of those life experiences that were meant to happen so that you could learn from it and overall your marriage could be strengthened through it?
Jesse --  God has a plan for where he wants to take all of us.  We sometimes choose a much more difficult path than He originally intended.  God could have (and probably would have) brought us to the same place we are today without having gone through all the pain we've passed through.  I wish I could undo the pain that I caused, but am thankful for where we are today.  I saw a quote not too long ago that I liked, "The point of your greatest misery is the point of your greatest ministry."

Are all of Jesse's tears and such genuine for Lyryn and for what you destroyed in your marriage or are they mourning the affair or tears of getting caught?! 
Jesse -- First, I wasn't caught.  Lauren could have gone home without anyone being made aware of the affair.  I decided to tell Lyryn and be as forthcoming as I could be.  The tears I shed were for everything.  A part of me was mourning the loss of something I had placed a lot of time and energy into, a part of me was grieving over the damage I had done and a part of me was crying in fear of what the future held.

Were you guys living together the whole time he was still talking to Lauren the second time? 
Lyryn -- Yes.

I just wonder what someone is thinking who isn't sorry an affair happened who doesn't want their marriage to work ... and oddly enough the "victim" of the affair wants more than anything to make it work... Any insight into what Jesse were thinking when you didn't want your marriage to work... would be great.
Jesse -- It's rare that a person has an affair and completely wants their marriage to work the entire time they are engaged with another person, though it does happen.  It's not uncommon that (especially in the beginning) the hurt partner doesn't even realize that there is anything wrong with their marriage.  As the affair progressed I began to dwell more and more on all the things that frustrated me about Lyryn.  This constant negative thinking reinforced my desire of wanting to leave.

One of my big frustrations is with our society and the way we treat commitment.  The number of lawsuits we have in our legal system and the number of divorces we see in our country, I believe, are closely related.  We struggle with the idea of seeing things through and personal responsibility and this manifests itself in these two ways.

When did you decide it was time for the 2nd baby and how did you know your marriage was healed enough to take this major step?
Lyryn -- I will also be touching on this next week too.  It was a good year or so after the affair that we found out that we were pregnant with Ian.   He wasn't planned by us, but God knew he was conceived at just the right time!  It was hard to handle at first because it took me right back to my fears of having Jayden and then Jesse hating his life and I didn't want an Act Two of 2008.  It ended up being a very good healing experience for me and I know that he was just what I needed to get to another healing level FOR ME.  Again, I'll post about this next week in more detail.

Remember that every situation is different. We are in no way trying to give all encompassing answers. The answers we give are primarily based off of our experiences, the experiences of some of our friends and people we've both counseled. These are mostly just opinion and should be looked at in this way.

Ask Us Anything Friday

We have been overwhelmed by the outpouring of support and interest in our story.  Due to the unexpectedly large number of questions we have decided not to answer all of the questions we received this week.  Plus, we want to save some of them for a later date.  :-)   If you still have questions, please send them in and we will continue to answer them as best as we can.

Also, remember that every situation is different.  We are in no way trying to give all encompassing answers.  The answers we give are primarily based off of our experiences, the experiences of some of our friends and people we've both counseled.  These are mostly just opinion and should be looked at in this way.

Tuesday you talked about all the ingredients that were adding up, were there signs/red flags early in the marriage, before you had your son? Or even before you were married?
Lyryn -- Not that I could tell, that's why I think it was so confusing for me. Jesse was amazing while I was pregnant, but after Jayden was born he quickly started to pull away. I didn't want to deal with it because I was struggling with postpartum depression and for me it was one more thing I had to worry about. I think the red flag for me was him pulling away emotionally, because he is normally not like that.

Will I ever have a semblance of control over my emotions? Will every little thing always make me burst into tears? Sometimes I feel like I'm living on the constant verge of a breakdown. It's really not fun.
Lyryn --Yes, and yes! And trust me... I thought I was crazy!!! It does get easier, I promise!!  Though it's hard to see it now. I think when people told me that; I just rolled my eyes and started balling all over again. All I can tell you from my experience is the more faithfully you work on your marriage the faster you'll start connecting again. Once you've connected again those negative emotions get less intense because you feel more secure in your marriage and in your love for one another.

I know you said he was far gone in the beginning, how did he come to change his mind and want to make things better?
Jesse -- I assume you mean far gone in the beginning after the affair had ended.  I didn't change my mind, not at first.  And things definitely didn't go perfectly.  I had to take a very deep look into myself and what I wanted for my future and I couldn't see any other path that would have been as fulfilling over my lifetime.  There were days and fights after it ended that were very big challenges to overcome, but we both made sure to connect with accountability partners (sometimes calling the other person's partner and saying "CALL HIM/HER NOW!").
 
Is there any part of you that still holds on and judges him?
 Lyryn -- A little, I think it's more out of fear of him doing this again and me going through all that pain again. I only get this way when we have a real fight because that normally triggers me to feel the way I did because we fought a lot then. Lots of my judgments or fears come from the triggers that I haven't completely healed from yet.


What, if anything, do you think you could have done to help stop the “disaster”?
Lyryn -- Communicating is a key.  If you are left alone with your demons and struggles, they can torment you.  I think it's hysterical, the devil does everything in his power to make you have sex before and outside of your marriage and within a marriage does everything in his power to STOP sex and intimacy.  Ugh!  He is a sneaky little devil.  Likes to destroy lives, I tell you.
Jesse -- Talked, communicated to another man of integrity.  Telling yourself you don't have any struggles is a lie, we all do and have different methods of trying to "cope," but communicating your struggles with another trustworthy man is paramount.  I think it is very important to note something I believe very strongly.  God has a plan of where he wants us to be.  We decide whether it's the easy, short route or the difficult, long route.

If you see red flags or your “wife radar” goes off, what should you do?
Lyryn -- Trust your INSTINCT!!!! I believe that God gave us the discernment to know when something is wrong in our marriage and family. When you see that red flag, start praying hard!!!!!!! I mean hard!!!!!! Get help from a pastor or counselor and nip it in the bud before it gets too bad. Also listen to the Holy Spirit, He will never guide you wrong.

How did you handle your feelings toward the "other woman"? 
Lyryn -- I think I'm still working on that.  I  would love to tell you I'm over her and don't think about her, but that's simply is not true.  My feelings about her have subsided A LOT, but it was extremely hard at first.  Every where I went I thought I saw her. The mere mention of her name or meeting someone with her name made me sick. I always compared myself with her, ALWAYS. But it has gotten easier and less of those thoughts pop into my head now.

My biggest thing is that I still struggle with just letting her go and forgiving her. I'm not sure what is holding me back, I mean if I can forgive my husband why can't I forgive her? I REALLY want to!  I know that I'm only hurting myself by holding on to all the hurt and unanswered questions I still have (yes, even after three years). What I try to do is be completely open about my feelings with Jesse. If I talk about them, I find they are more likely to go away.

This is my life. It's the only life I have. I don't get to start over when this one is finished. How do I move forward and enjoy the life that I've been given? I love my husband so much, even though he has hurt me (what seems like) beyond repair. 
Lyryn -- It seems unrepairable in the beginning, I know, I've been there.  You feel like everything has been a lie, that your life is sham.  There were plenty of times I wanted to give up and just walk away. There were plenty of time I tried to test Jesse's loyalty to me or his feelings for me in ways that could have just about split us up forever.  Take everything before Jesus, He will give you comfort if you are trusting him with your relationship.  You will see, month by month you'll start enjoying your life again.
Jesse -- It takes two.  One thing many hurt-partners struggle with is accepting anything the unfaithful partner does as genuine.  This can be a difficult thing to overcome, but is one of things that deserves a large amount of focus in the beginning of the recovery.  While the hurt-partner is still working this out the unfaithful partner needs to make sure they are investing more heavily than ever into their spouse even when they may not feel like it.

Did you confront "the other woman"? Ask her what she was thinking in all of this? Why/how could she be a part of this when you had tried to befriend her? 
Lyryn -- I will be touching on this in the next few weeks.  I will not speak for her or her feelings at the time, because I simply just don't know her heart.  I think that is a big thing I still struggle with.  I did confront her and had a conversation face to face.  Personally, I thought it was a bad idea to do it so close to having found out because I was unable to process much of anything.  And for the other two questions, I talk about this in the upcoming weeks when I talk about the day the affair came out.  But I do think it's important to confront the person who wronged you.  I would just do it differently because of all the unanswered questions.

My husband and I have been going through a difficult "season" ever since our child's birth in the past few months. He did a couple of things to hurt me, although he claims he didn't cheat, but my question for you is, how do you really know?
Lyryn -- The hard thing this is that you don't.  After having a baby it's hard to handle all the emotions coming at you and decipher what is what.  But he should be a support system for you and if he's not and is withdrawing, that would be a red flag for me.  I can't tell you there is this magic thing that someone does to set this feeling off in you.  I knew the second my husband told me he was not attracted to me anymore, I knew it.  It's about knowing your spouse and who they are.  If he wasn't attracted to me, that means he was attracted to someone else.  But I'm sticking to what I said above - TRUST YOUR INSTINCT!   If you know there is something going on in your marriage that does not seem right mentally and spiritually, more than likely you are dead on. 
Jesse -- Just like Lyryn said, you won't really know.  I would talk to a man with maturity that he respects and ask them if they would talk to him in confidence.  You're doing this not to get them to tell you the dirty secrets after he talks to them, but rather to start the process of getting him to open up to anyone.  I will say that if he's already begun walking down a path of selfish fulfillment than it will be difficult to get anyone to reason with him.  Ultimately it is vital that you and others you trust are faithfully praying for him.

Question for Jesse: What was it that made him unattracted to you?
Jesse -- I had become so disillusioned with my life and unhappy with where I was compared to where I thought I could/should be.  I thought my life should have turned out differently.  And since the biggest decision in my life was marrying Lyryn and then having a child together, I largely turned my blame towards her.  This frustration with my life turned into a frustration with my wife and then came out verbally, "I'm just not attracted to you anymore." A more honest statement would have been, "I'm not happy with who I am right now."  But I wasn't so introspective. I wanted to blame it on someone else.  Eventually, because I was pouring all my time and energy into someone else, I did lose interest in Lyryn and forgot all the things that I had once found attractive about her.

After Jesse told you what he had done, did you ever feel like you weren't good enough? By that I mean not pretty enough, skinny etc. (and you totally are!) 
Lyryn -- Yes, I felt inadequate in every way.  Though I felt like I kept myself looking good all the time, it didn't change the way I was feeling inside and how rejected I was.  All I wanted was for Jesse to smile, love and look at me like he looked at her.  I thought I was ugly because I no longer had perky boobs and a hot flat tummy after having HIS BABY!  (sorry... emotions sometimes still come up)  I did think I was not thin enough so I went through a period of my life after it came out where I struggled with not eating.  It was something I could control in my life when everything else was out of control.  Some would say I was anorexic, I don't think I was that extreme but I did lose 15 lbs in a matter of weeks. I still struggle with comparing myself to her, but not nearly as much as I use to.  It also helps that my husband is very intentional and always tells me how beautiful and sexy I am.  Guys... if you have done this... BE INTENTIONAL!  I use to think that he was just saying it, but I truly believe it now.  And I wouldn't have told you that three years ago.
Jesse -- I just want to second one of the last things Lyryn said there.  If there is any intention of recovering after an affair then the person who was unfaithful must go out of their way to let the other person know how much they mean to them.  Just think about it like a bank account.  All the bad things that you did are $10 withdrawls with $35 service draft charges and the good things are $5 deposits... You've got a lot of catching up to do!

First, is "Lauren" still a part of your lives in any way? And have you discussed hard and fast boundaries that apply not only to her but any woman ... and not only to Jesse but to both of you?
Lyryn -- I have to say that in some ways we were quite lucky.  After this came out she stopped working with Jesse and went back to her hometown in a matter of weeks.  Not many people are as lucky. I didn't have to see her around or fear that I would accidentally run into her.  She was gone physically, though not entirely gone from our lives.
But I do have a VERY close friend and mentor, Kerstin (who has given me permission to use her name and her thoughts with you) that had her best friend have an affair with her husband.  It was not so easy for her.  They went to the same church, they had the same friends; so it was inevitable that they might run into one another or worse... have her husband run into her "accidentally." It was hard for her at first, devastating.  Not only was she betrayed, but she also lost her best friend all at once.  And since they shared the same friends they would see each other at weddings and baby showers.  I can tell you that she was a champ!  I wanna be just like her; she is my inspiration!!!  She says it's much easier to see her now, but it doesn't stop the feelings from sometimes flooding back.
Jesse -- Boundaries...  Every man who claims to be a Christian and wants to lead his life with integrity needs to read Everyman's Battle by Steve Arterburn. It's challenging and will push many men in ways that they might not like at first.  Transparency is more important than it's ever been.  Running late?  Let her know.  Change of plans? Let her know.  Email from another woman? Let her know.  You really can't be too honest in those ways.  I am not being oppressive about it, but being informative and forthcoming is where it begins.
I don't think that we ever really came up with "all-encompassing" rules to dictate relationships in general.

Was it an emotional affair? Physical? Both? What did you find harder to accept? Is Jesse now completely open with you? Do you have access to his cell phones and emails? Is he transparent?
Lyryn -- It was both.  Honestly I cannot answer which is harder to accept.  I think no matter what, when someone strays from a marriage it's hard to handle.  I hated that they talked intimately about me and my life.  I hated that she knew my husband the way I should only know him . Both ways just suck... Lets just put it that way.
Jesse IS completely open and honest with me.  Because he has always been a pretty transparent person, he could jump back into it very well.  Sometimes he was a little too transparent... Maybe I shouldn't have asked the questions because he was pretty darn (excuse me while I throw up in my mouth) honest.  If I have a question he will tell me.  Now more than ever it's him asking me to open up more.  He has come a LONG way!  And yes, I do have access to his email.  Honestly, they are on my phone so I can see every email coming in to him.  But I rarely check them anymore.  As for the phone I do.  If I want to see it he will give it to me... I can't check his phone records anymore though because the company he works for pays for his phone.  But... I would not hesitate to ask his boss for the records if I felt I had anything to worry about.  I know his boss and he is a Christian and I don't believe he would have any problem letting me check Jesse's records.
Jesse -- For the unfaithful partner it's more difficult to overcome the internal struggles left behind from an emotional affair.  This is caused by two things.  One is that generally emotional affairs are a more prolonged event.  Secondly, emotional affairs require that you invest yourself heavily in every way. That baggage can be a struggle to let go of.
Another thing to consider is the gender roles.  Men generally have a harder time mending when their wife has been physically unfaithful.  Women will struggle with both elements of the affair, but often struggle longer with the emotional aspects of a husband's infidelity.

Why do you take responsibility for your husband's affair?  I don't think that you should at all.
Lyryn -- I'm sorry if it may have seemed as though I was taking responsibility for the affair.  In no way am I taking responsibility for that.  In my post, Where did it all go wrong?, I even stated that, "Let me stress that in no way am I taking responsibility for the affair, that was his choice and his choice alone, but I do take responsibility for where our marriage was at the time."  He made his choice... I did not MAKE him do it.  But FOR ME, I can see where I wasn't where I needed to be for my husband.  Please hear my heart on this.  Remember that every situation is different I am merely telling you OUR story.
Jesse -- There are cases where one partner is simply unfaithful.  I have not seen any research in this regard, but am fairly confident in saying that in cases where a partner is unfaithful despite the tranquility of their marriage that the unfaithful partner will probably have been struggling with things of a similar nature long before the affair happened.  Ultimately an affair, regardless of situation, is one person's selfish act and only they can be responsible for it.

How did you get to where you are today?
Lyryn -- JESUS... Plain and simple. He was my rock, my forever faithful husband, my sanity and my guiding light.  I would not be standing here today, happy and more in love than ever with this man, if it weren't for the love and mercy of my God. I just trusted God (though at times it was hard) and He taught me how to surrender all and love my husband again...
Jesse -- Humility.  Both of us had to admit to ourselves that we weren't perfect, that we had failed each other in different ways.  I also know that I had to be extra intentional in all the things that I did to display my love for my wife.